Comments on It's All About We!: I don't believe in atheists

I have stayed out of this conversation for a varie...

2010-05-30T23:14:28.276-04:00

I have stayed out of this conversation for a variety of reasons. First, because I feel pretty strongly about it, and I have found over the past few months that when I feel something strongly, I actually don't want to discuss it online... I'd rather discuss it with a person in person and feel like I'm learning something about that person in turn. Online conversation ultimately

You said:
As for "chair," at what poi...

2010-05-30T23:12:34.461-04:00

You said:
As for "chair," at what point does a stool or bench become a chair? Do we all agree on that? I doubt it.

I say:
Of course not. But the fact that the bondaries of the definition are fuzzy emphatically does not mean that we can't identify things that are clearly not chairs. Same thing with gods.

You said:
Okay. I consider you a friend so I've given

Okay. I consider you a friend so I've given yo...

2010-05-30T21:22:45.110-04:00

Okay. I consider you a friend so I've given you latitude on tone here, but I simply can't read your post when you say "let me start by explaining the term." Do you not realize what a condescending asshole you sound like?

My mind just slammed shut. I'll come back to your comment because you've had some interesting points and because I've considered you a friend

I wrote:
Have to stop you right there. Words do...

2010-05-30T21:17:17.637-04:00

I wrote:
Have to stop you right there. Words don't have an agreed upon set of characteristics.

You wrote:
Without such an agreed-upon set if characteristics, then we have no communication. Your example of the chair is an excellent example of this. Yes, the boundary between things that are understood to be meant by the term chair and things that are not can be fuzzy, but if I

You wrote:
That's the largest part of my po...

2010-05-30T21:15:18.090-04:00

You wrote:
That's the largest part of my point. We try, we want to find common characteristics, and in many cases we succeed. A chair, for example. Most of us agree on what a chair is. However, it is only through metaphor that we understand it. There are no absolute meanings for any words. And, of course, there are generally agreed upon qualities (see: chair) but for concepts as large and

Your response:
I do. Thanks for explaining the ...

2010-05-30T21:10:07.964-04:00

Your response:
I do. Thanks for explaining the distinction you are making. It's funny, though, because I've known atheists who object to the "doesn't believe in" phrase specifically because it allows for the possibility that god exists.

My response:
There certainly are such atheists. They are the "strong atheists" from my first post. And incidentally

a-h-scientist wrote:
what are the characteristi...

2010-05-30T19:20:09.516-04:00

a-h-scientist wrote:
what are the characteristics of that are common among different definitions of "God?" I can think of two such qualities: supernatural character and sentience. If a thing is completely described by natural law, then I cannot see how someone can call it "God." Further if a thing can't THINK, then it seems to fall outside the reasonable definitions. It

a-h-scientist wrote:
You are exactly correct th...

2010-05-30T19:19:01.742-04:00

a-h-scientist wrote:
You are exactly correct that an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in god(s). However, what you said at first was, "Atheists say 'there is no God'." The difference between those two statements is exactly the point of my posted comment. I am an atheist, and yet I find the statement, "there is no God," not only an incorrect statement of my

You are exactly correct that an atheist is someone...

2010-05-30T18:43:33.892-04:00

You are exactly correct that an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in god(s). However, what you said at first was, "Atheists say 'there is no God'." The difference between those two statements is exactly the point of my posted comment. I am an atheist, and yet I find the statement, "there is no God," not only an incorrect statement of my position, but patently

Thanks for the thoughtful responses!

To Ste...

2010-05-30T16:50:50.561-04:00

Thanks for the thoughtful responses!

To Stephanie: Tomater.

To a-h-scientist :-) I say:

At first I just found your reply condescending in that pat-pat-pat "what nice uninformed thoughts you have" kind of way. After thinking about it and re-reading it, here's what I think. Certainly I don't know the full range of meanings of "atheist." No doubt

You've really got to be careful about definiti...

2010-05-30T12:25:24.783-04:00

You've really got to be careful about definitions when you are making claims about belief systems that aren't yours. Even though I have a moderately good idea what panentheism is, I personally would be very hesitant to state the essence of panentheistic belief with the same air of authority with which you have stated the essence of atheistic belief.

To illustrate such dangers, I&

I'm not sure whether or not I believe in agnos...

2010-05-25T01:38:02.788-04:00

I'm not sure whether or not I believe in agnostics, but once I sort that out, I'll move on to the whole atheism/theism thing. Or not. Since some divine voice told me to do something inconvenient, which I did, to much personal inconvenience, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter whether or how you define it, just that you get the results. And oh what a result she is.

the other thing that occurs to me is that maybe wh...

2010-05-25T00:59:43.258-04:00

the other thing that occurs to me is that maybe what you're not liking about atheism is that it's a sort of negative proposition. atheism describes what i don't believe in without giving any clue about what i do. that's just the nature of a word with the greek root for "without".
i guess for me, they are sort of two separate questions. it's important to

and it's of course just as fine with me for yo...

2010-05-25T00:07:02.368-04:00

and it's of course just as fine with me for you not to believe in atheism as it with you for me not to believe in god. i'd bet we both think privately, "oh, she agrees with me, she's just using an inaccurate description," but have enough respect for one another (and humans in general) not to insist that we identify our beliefs with the same words. or, at least, i'll

right, but i didn't write a blog post that sai...

2010-05-25T00:04:57.809-04:00

right, but i didn't write a blog post that said we believe similar things, and i call it god but you don't, therefore if you acknowledge those beliefs in something beyond yourself, you believe in god, regardless of whether you identify as an atheist or not, because i don't believe in atheists. i sensed a sly smugness in your post that implies, "oh, you atheists, you do

I don't mean to be dismissive. Let me clarify ...

2010-05-24T17:39:40.248-04:00

I don't mean to be dismissive. Let me clarify a few things.

I don't think the word is meaningless any more than any other word is meaningless. That is, the meaning is put into it using our social/cultural/metaphorical personal understandings of it. And, Anonymous, I'm pretty sure I know who you are and I've seen you grant me an exception to the "god believers are

Exactly.

2010-05-24T09:56:29.191-04:00

Exactly.

Yay Stephanie. I couldn't have said it better ...

2010-05-24T09:52:03.986-04:00

Yay Stephanie. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Personally, I think when I call myself an "a-theist" I'm making it pretty darn clear what I don't believe in.

and as far as it being just "a word" tha...

2010-05-24T02:46:47.637-04:00

and as far as it being just "a word" that "doesn't matter"-- are you kidding? a word that people use to justify murdering doctors who perform abortions? a word that people use to justify stoning women to death? a word that people use to justify beating gay men to death? sure, it's just a label, but why on earth would i want to demean and sully my own sense of

i think you're just playing with words here, f...

2010-05-24T02:24:55.995-04:00

i think you're just playing with words here, frankly. god refers to a supernatural deity. you can't just change the definition of god because you don't like the idea of not believing in god. i mean, you can, of course, but it's nonsense. and i honestly find it dismissive and insulting to suggest that what i believe in is god. your calling it that doesn't make it so.
so

I sort of believe in god at a visceral level but g...

2010-05-24T02:10:10.253-04:00

I sort of believe in god at a visceral level but get contrarian about it the instant any definitions start to appear. I also believe that belief is a human psychological trait that evolved as a useful survival mechanism, which allows me to dismiss my innate belief as biological in nature. Read Dennett's Breaking The Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon for a good exposition on it.
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Yah, I agree with Anon there. Perhaps you (SB) are...

2010-05-24T01:38:31.627-04:00

Yah, I agree with Anon there. Perhaps you (SB) are an atheist as well and have redefined "god" to mean "no-god" in your last sentence ... okies. Kinda $Zero-esque, but whatevs.

All you've really claimed is that a meaningful...

2010-05-24T01:25:09.165-04:00

All you've really claimed is that a meaningful definition of the word "god" doesn't exist. Fine. It's an empty word. Means nothing. And that's atheism. Lacking belief in a meaningless word without any real concept behind it. I don't see what's so complicated.

Re-writing my reply.

Universe and all life ...

2010-05-23T23:08:27.483-04:00

Re-writing my reply.

Universe and all life is random/no purpose: I agree.
Nothing "out there" cares, etc.: I agree.
When we die, that's it.: I agree.
Some have great luck in life: I agree.
Some have great misery in life: I agree.
Some people have a lot of faith in god, some people don't: I agree. (I think joy and misery are both inspirations for belief.)

I'm an atheist, so you don't believe in me...

2010-05-23T23:00:26.029-04:00

I'm an atheist, so you don't believe in me? :) Let's see, my basic belief system goes like this: the universe and all life is random and has no purpose. Nothing "out there" cares what we do or believe. When we die, that's it, there is no "soul" that goes on to exist on some other plane. Some of us get lucky and have an abundance of good things so we get all

Comments on It's All About We!: I don't believe in atheists

I have stayed out of this conversation for a varie...

You said:As for "chair," at what poi...

Okay. I consider you a friend so I've given yo...

I wrote:Have to stop you right there. Words do...

You wrote:That's the largest part of my po...

Your response:I do. Thanks for explaining the ...

a-h-scientist wrote:what are the characteristi...

a-h-scientist wrote:You are exactly correct th...

You are exactly correct that an atheist is someone...

Thanks for the thoughtful responses!To Ste...

You've really got to be careful about definiti...

I'm not sure whether or not I believe in agnos...

the other thing that occurs to me is that maybe wh...

and it's of course just as fine with me for yo...

right, but i didn't write a blog post that sai...

I don't mean to be dismissive. Let me clarify ...

Exactly.

Yay Stephanie. I couldn't have said it better ...

and as far as it being just "a word" tha...

i think you're just playing with words here, f...

I sort of believe in god at a visceral level but g...

Yah, I agree with Anon there. Perhaps you (SB) are...

All you've really claimed is that a meaningful...

Re-writing my reply.Universe and all life ...

I'm an atheist, so you don't believe in me...

You said:
As for "chair," at what poi...

I wrote:
Have to stop you right there. Words do...

You wrote:
That's the largest part of my po...

Your response:
I do. Thanks for explaining the ...

a-h-scientist wrote:
what are the characteristi...

a-h-scientist wrote:
You are exactly correct th...

Thanks for the thoughtful responses!

To Ste...

Re-writing my reply.

Universe and all life ...